The Fourth Dimension
I think it’s weird that anyone would believe there is an actual fourth dimension. I was talking to Nate (the Math author at my work) about this a while ago. His view of the fourth dimension is based on attributes of the first, second and third dimensions. You can read this argument here. Also, there is a theoretical zeroth dimension – but I won’t even mention that in this post.
The problem with the fourth dimension is that the first and second dimensions are not real. They are simply mathematical theories to try and explain the world we live in. There is no example of a dot, line or plane in the real world. In factm everything real has qualities that exclude it from the first or second dimension. There is no first or second dimension, except in our imagination.
1st Dimension
Not real (imagined as a theory)
2nd Dimension
Not real (imagined as a theory)
3rd Dimension
An attempt to explain the world around us mathematically
4th Dimension
Not real (a theory based on the other made-up dimensions)
To use the first, second and third dimension as a basis for believing in a REAL fourth dimension seems strange to me.
It seems like humans do this a lot. We observe the world around us (a world obviously beyond our comprehension). We imagine and make up rules and laws. Then, over time, we start believe that our made up laws are real! And that the universe really does work by our rules. Our funny made up theories.
I’m not saying that science and physics (and especially math) aren’t useful. Because they are. But believing our made up theories as real – and using them as a foundation to believe we understand things beyond our understanding seems a bit arrogant.
john 12:57 am on July 23rd Permalink | Log in to Reply
Go read some Brian Greene and try to wrap your brain around his stuff. He explains that there may be as many as 10 or 11 dimensions… I read his book last December and have had to take aspirin every day since then
David Mulhern 10:48 am on July 23rd Permalink | Log in to Reply
Yeah, string theory can be a bit mind boggling if you start to think of it as real instead of an imagined unproved theory. But I guess that’s what I’m saying.
It’s like they are writing a new kind of science fiction. It’s beautiful and imaginative, I love it! But when people read their stories (theories) and accept them as real and then use them as a basis to make other theories, we start to run into problems.
Greene himself said, “So far I’ve spent something like 17 years working on a theory for which there is essentially no direct experimental support. It’s a very precarious way to live and to work.”
I think it’s cool – Brian imagines the world in a certain way (like a science fiction writer) but he takes it a step further by justifying it through other people’s imagined theories on the world (general relativity, quantum mechanics etc.) – He doesn’t believe there are limits to how much we can know about the universe .. I disagree with that 100%.
Mark McCowen 7:32 am on July 29th Permalink | Log in to Reply
I read Brian Greene’s book the Elegant Universe (watch the documentary online at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html) and I believe his case is interesting but unconvincing. It’s not the theory that’s troubling but the complete lack of evidence. String Theory and subsequent theories may prove to be true, but they lack shadows of their existence. To understand what I mean by shadows it is useful to look to General Relativity. Einstein discovered that gravity is a bend in the space-time continuum. To prove this, scientist devised an ingenious experiment. A person standing on earth should be able to see light from a star that lies directly behind the sun. Technically, the sun is blocking the view but what happens is that the light is bent around by the sun’s gravity. From our point of view we can’t see the bend (of space-time) but we can see its effects. The bend of light shows us a shadow of Einstein’s space-time.
To my knowledge, String Theory hasn’t given up any of its shadows. Its also extremely unlikely that its theorist can show – by perceived physical evidence – the 5th or even the 10th dimension. Humans weren’t genetically endowed with the physical senses to perceive these realities. It’s like asking what’s on the outside of the universe. The question itself is pointless.
I may be negative about the theory but I do believe it should continue to be pursued in the physical sciences. Physics in general has seemed to run into a brick wall, and String Theory may be its only way out. If the theory is true, then our 3 dimensional universe may turn out to be just shadows of higher realities. Elegant indeed.
Mona 8:09 am on July 29th Permalink | Log in to Reply
First of all, I think it is unfortunate that math uses English words and assigns them relatively similar, but unique meanings. A “dimension” in a strictly mathematical sense is somewhat different than the English word implies. For example, you cannot say that the 3rd dimension exists and is real without acknowledging that it is made up of sample points (isolated units of the 1st dimension) and planes (isolated units of the 2nd dimension) and the 4th dimension is often thought of as time, which is commonly thought of as existing – at the very least in a subjective way. To argue that dimensions are real is more a philosophical debate about whether our observations of space-time are real. Dimensions beyond our experiential plane are generally built upon observations of multivariable mathematics – like a parabola is a two-dimensional shape, a conic folded donut in 4 dimensions can’t be imagined in 3D, but it can be graphed abstractly in order to measure 4-variable mathematical phenomenon.
I think I was disappointed when I realized that Math is not the language of the universe, but rather our feeble means to approximate it.
The fact that our approximations apply in dimensions we cannot see may only be a rare coincidence, but that fact alone does provide a little (unprovable) support toward the idea that space-time may have more than four axes folded in on itself.
Mona 8:12 am on July 29th Permalink | Log in to Reply
Also, at least linearly, mathematicians are comfortable making approximations in infinitely many dimensions.
Mark McCowen 9:53 am on July 29th Permalink | Log in to Reply
That was pretty interesting Mona, but I’m not sure I understand. I think what you are saying is that there are 4 dimensions that definitely exist. So for instance, you could have David located at 3rd street and Jefferson on the fourth floor at noon. That would account for your 3 dimensions and the 4th being time. Do I understand you correctly?
I reread David’s earlier post and I think his original message has taken a major turn (maybe to the 10th dimension). David is writing about something more foundational. It goes to the root of knowledge itself (epistemology). He’s asking how do we know about anything. Huge structures are being built but on what? At the same time he can see that some knowledge has pragmatic value including math and science.
David Mulhern 10:01 am on August 2nd Permalink | Log in to Reply
“I think I was disappointed when I realized that Math is not the language of the universe, but rather our feeble means to approximate it.” That is a very good way to say it – I’m going to remember that.
Some very interesting thoughts. Yeah! If we can admit that the foundation is just our best guess, at least we aren’t living falsely believing that the foundation is true.
In school (K-12), they teach that the foundation is true – they don’t emphasise the fact that it’s all just our best guess.
Believing in the scientific theories takes faith. But it isn’t fair if you are tricked into believing it’s true.
taizinkatt 6:13 pm on June 24th Permalink | Log in to Reply
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