God (to the third power)
I have some questions about the Christian view of the trinity. I’ll start with what we know:
1. The bible hints at three different forms God can take.
2. The concept “trinity” is never mentioned.
What I don’t understand is why Christians have decided that the three forms we have been told about is all there is. They decided that God is a trinity and made it a central part of every statement of faith I’ve ever seen.
What if there are 16 forms God can take but we simply can’t percieve them yet… Or 16,000…
Making something up about God… TRYING to piece God together… Then claiming the results as the one true definition of God seems like an arrogant thing to do. And limiting God to our human logic makes God small enough and comfortable enough to fit on the shelf…
And maybe this is why taking the mystery out of God leaves us with a boring made up human faith… Rather than an infinate mysterious inpercievable puzzle… Of which we have only been given a small piece of the solution.
B. Willey 8:22 pm on January 14th Permalink | Log in to Reply
I wholeheartedly agree with you David. I have always wrestled with the concept of the Trinity and the blind acceptance of a “truth” that is never explicitely stated in the Bible. If God can place Himself inside a small human child, why can he not take any other forms than that? Good thoughts my friend.
Ezra 1:44 am on January 15th Permalink | Log in to Reply
This is one of the guiding principles for Reform Judiasm. While we are the “chosen” people (chosen to follow the Torah and the commandments found within it) this does not preclude God from making unique convenants for different people. It is hard for me to accept that there is only one form or faith that worships God correctly. These feeling and values come from a multi faith household growing up. Also, Judiasm has historically not been in a position to do anything to piss off the religious majority. They already had enough hostility directed towards them. This also has shaped the inclusive view of all religions that share common values (sanctitiy of human life, monotheistic belief, a smattering of others)
Obviously, I don’t post too often, so thanks for the inspiration.
Cheers
David Mulhern 9:09 am on January 15th Permalink | Log in to Reply
Thank you for the comments guys – It’s nice to hear your thoughts… I am learning to be content with not knowing every little freakin’ detail about God – and it’s much easier then pretending I’ve got God all figured out. BTW: Hi Sean!
tom mulhern 9:18 am on January 15th Permalink | Log in to Reply
there are two reasons that we have a three person concept of the trinity and not a 6 or 16,000:
1. we are not hindus
2. because it is explicitly seen at the baptism of Jesus where we see Jesus (son), the Father expressing his acceptance of the Son, and the Spirit decending like a dove (Mat.3). We do not see the three persons of the trinity and 16,000 other persons too.
I think that the best explenation that we have (from scripture not just made up) is that God is three in person, one in essence. I do not think that this takes away from the mystery of God at all. We will never fully understand the complexity of God, and that is why He is God and we are not.
David Mulhern 11:58 am on January 15th Permalink | Log in to Reply
Yeah, but to say the reason we have a three person concept of the trinity is because “we are not hindus” is a red herring. If the 3 sides of God are at the same time one – it doesn’t matter whether the number is 3 or 6 if they equal one.
I will say though I never realized that there is a verse that says “three in person, one in essence” – That is actually a good argument! Where is that verse?
AWK 12:17 pm on January 15th Permalink | Log in to Reply
Adding to what Tom said we also have to account for the role of the rule of faith and the Holy Spirit in the development of Christian doctrine. It is hard to express any ideal of Modern “Christianity” without having to first come to understand the rule of faith in every aspect of Christianity, including the concept of the Trinity.
If we look to the scriptures to determine the Trinity’s role then we must first accept that the scriptures themselves are a construct of the Rule of Faith,(Canonization 325 CE.- Athanasius).In that same time period, using the same Rule of Faith, the concept of the Trinity was formed in the Creed of Nicea.
The eucumenical councils relied on one-another and the Holy Spirit to help define the faith that the “bride” of Christ was left to protect. I am not of the opion that they were trying to completly cut and dry the issue, but rather to honour the truth that the church has recieved through the Rule of Faith and revelation.
The early church, and to some extant modern Catholicism, placed great emphasis on the beauty and Mystery of God, and the unfathomable truth of Him.
David Mulhern 9:48 pm on January 15th Permalink | Log in to Reply
I think the reason I even said anything is because I grew up thinking of the trinity concept as if it was explicitly stated in scripture….
I just wish that it could be worded more like: “these are the three sides God has chosen reveal to us” – or that “these are the three sides we as humans can comprehend” – rather than “God is three in person, one in essence.”
Maybe it’s just semantics – but it seems a bit arrogant to me… but that’s just my opinion.
tom mulhern 1:52 pm on January 17th Permalink | Log in to Reply
I think that our human understanding of God will never scratch the surface of who He truly is, but the idea of trinity is the best understanding of the essence of God.
I think that you are mistaking God’s different attributes for his revealed personality, and even the word personality puts God in human terms. God has many different attributes that He reveals to us through his word and through experience, but he reveals the essence of who He is through the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There is a difference between who I am and what I do. It would seem foolish to claim that happy is another form of me, it is simply an attribute of who I am. I have not revealed myself as more than one person. God however has revealed himself, in the Bible, as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and although these are three separate entities they are one person (Deuteronomy 6:4). These are the only forms or personalities of the One true God which are spoken of as God. The love of God is not God, it is an attribute of God. The ultimate essence of love is God, but love is not the only essence of God. And so on…
I do not think that it is arrogant to say that what I believe is the best understanding of a God who is beyond comprehension. Is it perfect? NO! but is it the most reasonable explanation for what I find in scripture and the most orthodox tradition taught throughout church history? YES!
craig 5:04 pm on January 18th Permalink | Log in to Reply
Matt 28:18-20
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
now this doesn’t necessarily count out the idea that there are more than three forms of God…but it definitely points out the three that we know of and stresses their importance.
Kyle 5:20 pm on January 24th Permalink | Log in to Reply
you’re all a bunch of heretics.
Oh I mean – a lot of things aren’t stated explicitly in scripture: example – the rapture or Jesus being both God and man. There is no sentence in the Bible that explicitly talks about these things, rather, they are derived from looking at what God says about a subject in different places in scripture.
They are not lesser concepts, however. Jesus did the same thing when he proved to the Saducees that there is a resurrection from the dead. He used a verse in the OT where God says “I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob”. Jesus didn’t find a verse that said “Thus the lord said – everyone gets raised from the dead”
So we look at the verses where Jesus receives worship, for example. We are left with a few questions – are there two God’s?, are they the same? Or Romans 9 where Paul says that the Messiah is God. Or the old testament verses regarding who the Messiah is going to be.